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YR791 Interview with Peter from The Pirate Bay

A very interesting and heated discussion with Peter from The Pirate Bay about freedom of speech and intellectual property.

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28 replies on “YR791 Interview with Peter from The Pirate Bay”

liked the show. Liked Chris’s contribution too. ITs true that sometimes we on the internets get ahead of ourselves and forget that in the everyday RL world in places like the US people really do use the term steal.. which is odd.. over here I hear it much less. Filesharing or downloading is a much more prevalent term at this point.. and how we talk about it is part of the equation of what meaning we give to it.. though its not the whole battle.

I just wanted to add this, for whatever my opinion matters to anyone. I got to spend a great amount of time with Peter this past weekend and it was an excellent experience. He has a great capacity for critical thinking and a great curiosity and concern for the world around him. I do not just give such praise to anyone, Im telling you, “this ain’t no con”.

also i remain bicyclemark and not that new name they tried to give me. and it wasnt three women it was more like 2. but he’s right on that hair thing too.

I loved this show. I find Peter insufferable though. He could at least acknowledge how musicians and artists could FEEL that they’re being stolen from. Use some empathy man. His cocky attitude does not help his point.

Ironic that a cracked version (albeit a slightly old version) of one of my apps appeared on The Pirate Bay the day this was posted.

I usually ignore that sort of stuff. People will either pay, or they won’t. And while I typically pay for all my software, it’s not like I’ve never download music, TV shows, films, etc.

During the stream I axsed you several times, Madge, how you would feel if I started an ad revenue-driven site and posted your shows (or movies from insanefilms) and started making a profit and didn’t give you any money for it, how you would feel? You never answered… But wouldn’t you feel entitled to at least a part of the profits?

That said, I think most of us who have been on the internet for the past 10 years have at least ONCE downloaded a piece of intellectual property that was not entirely paid for appropriately.

One main problem with Peter is his Swedish accent (me being half Finnish and also Swedish speaking allows me to be this bigoted 😉 ), as well as the typical Swedish “besserwisser” attitude…

This attitude is prevalent in all issues from health care to human rights issues to its foreign policy… Swedes, for the most part, like to feel — and regularly act — like they are better than the rest of the world, and have it all figured out.

What, exactly, besides a very functional file sharing app, has Peter actually contributed to the world? I don’t mind musicians / filmmakers / poets / whatever sharing their own stuff (then also justifiably sharing other people’s) but when *for lack of a better word* hackers just blithely state that “it’s OK to do this because I can,” it just doesn’t sound right, fair or – dare I say it – even legal.

When I think of artists and their means of support, I think of the patron in old times. The person would pay the artist to live and produce. I feel that artists are kinda in a bad sort of situation in terms of earning a living. It’s a struggle, more so in America. When Chris was getting angry, I sort of felt that the anger was a culmination of things. I’d have to guess that artists in America and artists in Europe are in different states. And, it sucks, as many things do in America.

I think it’s really cool what’s going on with this freedom of speech and stuff, and I especially consider it to be something that’s years away for America. And, when Chris says he knows our rage. Rage? Really?

I don’t think it’s human nature to steal from others. It’s one of the social moral constructs that evolved from our ancestry. I think what’s going on here is people are sharing something they liked and it’s really nice to share something with others. I didn’t hear anyone mention that element. I like downloading things other people liked, or something people like me like. This is good especially for minorities, where we can get things out to each other. It feels good to connect and to experience something someone thought was beautiful. That’s what art is, it presents beauty, a deeper perspective, and/or a higher state of thinking.

MHO.

How many times during the program did peter make it clear they don’t make a profit! People need to listen a little harder rather then leave comments using their pre-existing issues as a guide rather then the very clear information that he mentions several times.

Also the whole use of a personal situation “what if it was your work” reminds me of death penalty proponents who will try to make emotion be the basis for a policy by saying “what if it was your son or your mother who was killed”. Extreme comparison? its still using scare tactics and emotional appeal instead of logic and clear thinking.

The ads, like them or not, help keep the service in existence. Not to make a profit.

I think the concept of property is ridiculous. If you want to keep something, don’t show it to me. I have the technology to take your stuff away, so next time someone makes a lasagne, I’m stopping by with my car, pick the lock, and take the lasagne at gunpoint.

That’s evolution! I have the technology, so it’s okay to do it! And if I want a lasagne, that’s my human right – and I’m calling that free speech. That’s human nature. Though luck.

And if you don’t agree – you are stupid.

“”“what if it was your son or your mother who was killed”. Extreme comparison? its still using scare tactics and emotional appeal instead of logic and clear thinking. “”” – bicyclemark

Yes, extreme and misses the point… 😉

You have not answered the question, bm or madge, what if it is your stuff that is being reappropriated for someone elses (OK, not profit) survival?

You have to admit, even if Piratebay is not “making a profit” off of this type of ad revenue on their sites, there are many others that are. You’re OK with that?

A simple yes or no will do.. And this has nothing to do with the death penalty. 😉

you know, I have been trying to write a comment to this show and realized that it will probably be dismissed as idiocy because I don’t agree with you. So I will not.

I thought you might like to know, though, why I don’t usually comment.

@podcastmark I was not ignoring your question. I can’t get to everything in the chat room and long questions disappear from my streen very quickly.
I’m not sure how I would *feel* about it, but similar things have happened in the past, though not as extreme. Ebaumsworld, for example, was distributing Les Beans and I was first a little pissed, then happy, then pissed again because there was nothing in it for me. After thinking about it, and discussing it with others, I came to the conclusion that the best thing to do was to ask for a simple link back to my site and a prominently displayed yeast radio or insaneflims.

Your example is much more extreme and I would have to make the dermination if it was causing me to loose money or not.

If it were loosing money for me, then I would ask them to stop doing it, share the profits, or the like. If they refused to comply, then I would probably use the PR realm to publicly humiliate them if they had a face.

But, I would not involve the legal system, and that’s my main point here.

@mikeypod at least you commented something. I don’t think I would have dismissed your comment as idiocy and I think I responded to you fairly on the show.

@manyofyou download music and do not pay for it. Or, perhaps, you have downloaded youtube clips that were not authorized by the producer of the content. Have you ever installed software that you didn’t pay for? You should state that in your comment when the comment otherwise has the appearance of a high moral ground. IMO.

GREAT Show on an issue I don’t know the answers to. I do know that copyright law is fucked and we need to change our laws. However, I tend to agree more with Peter. Copyright generally tends to equate to corporate greed in my book.

I’m not sure how “extreme” my example was, it was simply posed as how the system works these days. I mean (without trying to sound holier than thou) websites *like* Piratebay *do* in all likelihood make money on their advertising just because of the sheer numbers of people that use these sites.

Somehow I have a difficult time believing that the most well-known sharing sites does *not* make money on the ads, but whatever… Your content is already put out there for free, without membership or subscription fees etc., so it doesn’t really adhere to the other forms of content out there (movies, TV shows, music and software) that traditionally have had a “middleman” who distributes and sets a price for it… But what if you decided to charge for Yeastradio (because let’s pretend that’s the only way you could feasibly keep doing it) and then one of your subscribers ripped the episode as soon as he got it from an aggregator and put it on Piratebay for free… You would be losing potential income for your work, and I would bet my stretched girdle that you would not be pleased.

Like I said, I am not sitting on a high horse, because I have downloaded my share of (mostly) music. I try to justify it by saying to myself that I wouldn’t have the extra cash to buy music, but I am not sure this is really true.

Don’t get me even started about all the movies I have watched that I otherwise would never have gone to or rented… But then again, what did I watch before soulseek, torrents, etc… Another thing is that I am teaching my teenage son to be a pirate as well, and I am having some serious problems with that. I think I need a piracy anonymous support group or something.

Let me again repeat — I’m not on either side of this argument. I don’t think there are simply two sides. I said over and over that I don’t know what I think about all of this, and that I can agree and disagree with elements of both positions.

That said, I was somewhat playing devil’s advocate with much of my questioning. I don’t have an inherent trust of people involved with online media distribution simply because they share my views of existing large media companies. AND I don’t believe organizations like the music licensing groups have the artists interests completely at heart.

What does anger me, and why I initially got pissed off, was the attitude displayed Peter displayed when I raised what to many artists are very legitimate concerns in language that, in this country, makes a lot of sense. In fact it’s at the heart of the problems many artists have with such large media conglomerates and orgs in the first place.

Again and again I’ve encountered this dismissive attitude towards producers from many in the online world. It’s doubly frustrating when they spend a large part of their time arguing that their efforts will greatly benefit me directly yet have no problem dismissing any claims we may raise as nonsense.

It’s very patronizing.

(Also when I’m labeled right off the bat as irrational, I like to live up to it….)

That said, I think Peter did an admirable job of hearing me out and ultimately respecting that my having concerns about all this does not equal me wanting to throw him and his friends in jail.

Above in the comments, Psychic mentions that it’s a very different situation in the US for artists than in Europe or Norther Europe. This is very true. We are in a very precarious situation. We do not have a national health insurance policy, we do not have reliable and easy transportation, and America as a whole is rapidly being pushed towards a third world nation.
Most importantly, though, is that artists in America, (as elsewhere I would imagine, but I’m talking about the world I know…) have spent a tremendous amount of time and energy over the last several decades, in mediums from music to comics to writing to filmmaking, trying to retain or regain full rights to their work from large companies. When some progress in that area is finally being made, for someone to come by and tell you that’s a wrong and worthless thing is incredibly infuriating.

My time is running out, let me summarize.
I don’t know what the correct position on all this is for me or anyone else.
I do know that many involved with these issues online need to be more respectful of the people who create the work they are using. They need to understand that many of us come from entirely different worlds and situations and do not immediately share all of the same assumptions about the internet.

I don’t know what or when or how I’m going to do anything about this in relation to my own work. I may simply give up caring and never worry about this again. I may figure out some kind of patchwork scheme…

I don’t know.

In some ways, what I was hinting at is that … art has changed and what artists are are is very diffrent. There aren’t a lot of Georgie Okeefes. If there are, there’s about 200+ of them on deviant-art.

Hasn’t technology erased that idea of an artists and made it into something else? It’s made everything plural and reproducable. I could imagine that not only can your work be reproduced, but I’m sure there could be another artist that adopts your style. When we talk about these issues we’re not talking about a group of a million artists or 3 million fans. We’re in the billions now. What’s there to do?

Won’t the dog need to learn knew tricks?

I disagree with the definition of ‘steal’ that was put forth. Stealing pertains not to just physical objects. Elections are stolen. Rights are stolen. All you have to do is look in the dictionary.
As for completely free speech, should someone be allowed to yell fire in a crowded theater?

@ricardo: yes, yes they should be allowed to yell such a word.
Because if they are telling the truth then you all get out of the building, if they are bullshitting all it takes is for people to look around and realise that the person is being a dick.
It’s this wonderful skill known as rationalisation.
Sadly, most of the general public live up to their sheeplike stereotypes.

It’s a dangerous precedent that we have set in implicitly trusting technology to do most of our thinking and actions for us.
Who’s to say that the fire alarm hasn’t gone off by accident? Should we then ban the fire alarm from ringing because it might not be right? It’s the same rhetoric as the useless question you posed.

And if someone tries to bring up the racial hate talk example, let me point out that it should be their freedom to say that.. it’s when they add intent to carry out their words that the law should drop on them fully. Instead of making it off bounds to talk about such hatred, we should allow these dipshits to be out in the open so that they can’t keep their thoughts to themselves and so expose all of their actions to critical observation.

The very definition of freedom of speech is the right to hear that which you do not want to hear.

Besides, I still can’t believe that you can’t say vagina on american tv.. what is so scary about the medical term for the female genitalia?

Mind you, we brits are just as bad, in a london tube station a couple of posters were on the wall. One advertising the vagina monologues, the other advertising puppetry of the penis. Out of the two, the word penis was censored!

Great dialog between Chris, Peter and Madge. As a software developer it’s confusing but you all brought up good points, nonetheless. Yeast Radio doesn’t have answers, rather, begs more questions.

I just caught this I’m 7 years late but very interesting, Peter is now in Prison, Madge is doing fine and my thoughts on piracy are still the same…….it’s amazing.

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